Avatar Revisited...again

[Sardinal]

So, the Avatar poll showed that the winning option was to get rid of Avatar completely and offer a replacement DSA in its place. However, that option only won narrowly, and the discussions have continued since, so I have pulled together several suggestions from multiple sources to create this new Avatar. The new poll will determine whether or not this is what we choose to use. This version of Avatar is added directly to the Godhood Template and is not a Salient Divine Ability.


Avatar

All deities of Divine Rank 5 or higher gain the ability to create Avatars. Avatars allow a God to be in multiple places at once. Gods also frequently use Avatars to create alter egos or alternate versions of themselves.

An Avatar is an extension of the Deity. The Deity senses and knows everything the avatar sense and knows and vice versa. Each Avatar counts as a remote location where the deity is sensing and communicating.

Deities receive an Avatar Divine Rank Pool equal to their own Divine Rank with which to create their avatars. All created avatars must be at least Divine Rank 1 and can have up to half the divine ranks of the Deity creating it. Each Avatar so created depletes the Avatar Divine Rank pool by a number of Divine ranks equal to the number invested into it.

For Example: Sardinal, Lord of Balance, Time, and Death, is Divine Rank 18. Therefore, his Avatar DR pool has 18 Divine Ranks within it. He could choose to create 18 Divine Rank 1 Avatars, or 3 Divine Rank 5 and 3 Divine Rank 1, and so on. The Highest DR he could put into a single Avatar is 9.

Each Avatar has 3 Domains which must come from the Deities domain list and a number of Divine Salient abilities equal to a normal god of their Divine Rank, which must come from the list of Divine Salient Abilities possessed by the Deity creating it. Avatars can have the Extra Domain SDA to have more of their creators domains. Avatars can not have the following SDA's under any circumstances: Possess Mortal, Gift Mortal, Divine Host. Avatars, regardless of Divine Rank, cannot create other Avatars.

Unless specifically created to look different, an Avatar looks identical to the God that created it and has all the same classes, feats, and skills.. It does not possess copies of the Deities equipment, however.

Avatars do not have any remote sensing or remote communication powers, regardless of Divine Rank.

Divine Resonance:

Once created, avatars and the god that created them become dangerous to each other. Their powers, so similar, resonate with each other in violent ways. The more powerful the deity, the more pronounced and powerful this effect is. No Deity may be within 1 mile per Divine rank of one of its Avatars. Approaching closer than this limit creates a violent reaction between them that instantly destroys the Avatar and deals 2d20 points of untyped damage to the Deity per Divine rank of the Avatar so destroyed. Avatars cannot be near each other either. No Avatar may be within 1 mile per Divine Rank of the highest DR Avatar in range or both are instantly destroyed.

It takes a deity one year to create an avatar or replace a destroyed avatar. The process does not require any special effort on the part of the deity, they simply start the process and let it run its course. Avatars must be created within the Deities Divine Realm, but must leave immediately after being created.

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Give me your thoughts and vote as you see fit. Poll locks out on Sunday.

[samael]

I am honestly unsure how to vote, as due to said discussions on Saturday I was already prepared not to have them and instead choose a replacement Divine Salient.

[Sardinal]

well, this version isn't a Salient Divine Ability, its part of the God Template that all gods get, if that helps.

[samael]

Well after the discussion and much thought I personal have come around to the agreement that Avatar is indeed too powerful an ability, even rewritten as you have. Even though as it stands the way it was rewritten is exactly the form of avatar I voted on in the last vote. In this vote since there is not a "No Avatars" vote I will be voting on the one that says about starting over, although what I am really voting on is no more avatars. It is even more broken in my opinion since it now doesn't require a divine salient as well in my opinion.

[Zivix]

I like it...having avatars is something that it seems gods should be able to do just by their divine nature.  I also like the new DSA's we discussed on Saturday.

[samael]

Also nevermind I just changed my vote to the correct one because I just saw the option for it lol

[Cyian]

OK let try this again for the 2nd time!

I have never actually been a big fan of the concept of avatar, as Ty can confer my many conversations about it. I like my gods more on the omnipotent side of the idea of godhood. I never quite understood why a god couldn't be all knowing and all seeing, but I understand that isn't what a mythos god is like. They aren't infallible, they aren't all knowing, in fact they can be an often times are very flawed creatures. As I gain more experience with D&D specifically the upper echelons of it, Im coming to more understand the nature of D&D divinity and the purpose it serves. Compelling content.

That being said, Avatar (as it stands) represents one of the most powerful DSA's any divine being can get, period. So much infact that if all gods measured equally in divine rank the gods with-out avatar cant really compete in both story driving power and on the battle map power. The ability to be in up too 20 places at once or 20 of you on the same field of battle against a god that can only field himself, I think everyone can agree on the outcome. So there needs to be a solution to this super broken DSA.

And that's where we stand.

1. Fix it

2. Delete it

Quite frankly, I have been on the delete it side of the equation sense this subject was brought up. Simply because no one really came up with an idea that I liked to fix it.
However with the recent postulated changes I believe it can be fixed, quite simply. If every god has access to it, and reasonable limitations are put into place for it so that some of the abuses cant take place I think that's win / win. The playing field has just been leveled and avatar can do what I believe it was originally intended to do.

What I am unsure of.
Im not exactly sure of the implications of being able to create avatars up to your divine rank in number. I think im a bigger fan of the 1/2 divine ranks and divine category to number of avatar system. Simply because I cant think of a reason why anyone wouldn't make there max in number allotted in divine rank, especially if this about avatar being more of a mechanic of story and who's where and what they are doing. Divine Rank 1 or not its still a god. Im sure there are a host of reasons, im just saying I don't know them =p please enlighten.

In summation, Yes I really like the proposed changes. Tho I would add avatar to the no DSA list for avatars, unless thats already in the current avatar somewhere.

Cyian

[Sardinal]

Avatar serves a variety of functions for our Gods, and those functions will differ from God to God. Most notably for Gods who have distinct jobs to do, Avatar becomes very important. For example, Sardinal is the God of Death, and it is his job to sort through all those that have died, send the faithful on to their God's divine realm, and send the others to where they belong. The sheer size of Severall's three worlds makes it obvious that this is an immense job, as there must be literally hoardes of the dead to judge. With this system, Sardinal will be able to create an Avatar with just enough Divine Ranks to have access to the SDA's it needs to do the job for him, so that he can go about fulfilling his other divine duties. Know Death, True Knowledge, Hand of Death, The Death and Fate domains all seem like strong choices for an Avatar dedicated to fulfilling that role.

Searl enjoys creating Avatars of Gods that look and feel very different from the God that made them to use as quest givers and motivators for parties he runs in his games. These Avatars often look to be nothing more than the humblest of mortals, yet allow him to use Gods without having to beat the party over the head with them. Most of the time, the party doesn't even know they're dealing with a God.

Avatars can also be used to create alternate Gods for mortal Societies to worship. For example, Thelin could decide to create three new avatars, one female with the Sun, Nobility, and Good domains, another female with the Family, Good, and Nobility domains, and One male with the Healing, Good, and Nobility domains and market them as new Gods to a culture or society. They are all him, and he receives all that faith, yet they differ from the true Thelin in that they are more specialized for specific purposes.  The churches that spring up around these "Gods" will likely be nothing more than highly specialized churches of Thelin, though they might not consider themselves to be such.

With the new system, you can create as many avatars as you have divine ranks, but if you need them to fulfill a specific purpose, you must make them strong enough to have all the SDA's they will require to meet that purpose. While I have no doubt that some among us will be lazy and just create a bunch of DR 1 avatars to spread across the three globes, please know I will be rolling my eyes and laughing at you behind your back for such silliness . With 18 ranks to play with, Sardinal will probably have at least one or two around 6ish, and more at a variety of DR's, totaling to 18. Some of the Gods at smaller DR's are more likely to have just a bunch of DR 1 Avatars, though few of mine will.

This version should allow for a great deal of Avatar customization and creativity, while curbing any God from using his Avatars to make them wildly more powerful than they should be and destroying any combat effectiveness Avatars have against other Gods.

[Sardinal]

regardless of what we decide to do with Avatar, I will still be creating the Gift Mortal and Divine Host SDA's

[Sardinal]

with four yes votes, one no and at least one abstention, this version of Avatar will be adopted and this discussion can finally be shelved.

[seekyr]

Starting a branch religion with an avatar shouldn't be allowed/easy. Avatars, if allowed, should be to investigate things off the divine, while the original is busy with other things ON THE DIVINE. Deities should not be allowed in mortal realms on a regular basis. That sort of thing is why avatars are even present. A shard of the divine is capable of handling or investigating most things. For other purposes, a deity might well need followers to do that sort of thing. It also allows for more PC adventure hooks and the like. An avatar would have no place on the divine, and no chance against any real power. The idea that a deity of power would split himself up and run roughshod over all lesser deities is silly. A deity of power has power. They wouldn't need parlour tricks to maintain their place, and wouldn't need to worry about anyone else's tricks either(sorry Zivix). Assuming the main basis of a deity's power is the followers they have, they should concentrate on that, and not on much else. Those with a JOB get a bonus, because everyone knows/believes in them. Most mortals fear the god of death, as they likely should. I'm not anybody and this is just my thoughts, but there it is.